anonymous June 10th, 2009 05:27AM  
A lot of people have suggested that this song is about Hitler. I, however, would disagree. In some instances the comparison makes sense, but it essentially does not seem to be something AFI would write about. The song tends to idealize the person who has left everyone behind. Assuming Davey Havok followed former patterns of making a song about his own life, Hitler would not fit. Havok does not appear to be anti-Semitic, and he would have to be in order to have this song about Hitler. The term "us" is used to refer to the followers left behind. If Havok were to have written this in reference to his own life, he would have to consider himself either a follower of Hitler or someone that relates to him, something he is most definatly not. The Lucifer theory seems to fit better with the lyrics of the song being person to Havok as he may not follow Lucifer, but perhaps may relate to him at the level of Lucifer having been the most adored angel of God that was ultimately thrown from heaven and, now, hated.

anonymous September 1st, 2009 06:46PM  
The song is very Gnostic in many ways. But there's not just one concept here to take apart. So much can mean so much.

A lot of humans and human conditions can illustrate it. The video seems to do so with a semi-mystical Hitler-like man and a femme-fatal who comes to collect the deal by breaking his neck like a rabbit. Yes, be careful who you make deals with, even if the end result is the same as things would have turned out anyway. We can (and have) thought of many other ways to get the concept across.

Who is Miss Murder? Most likely, it's Sohpia. Isha (the woman, known as Eve after Genesis 3:20). Death, Gaia, Ishtar, Mary of Bethany. An archetype I suppose you could call it.

I interpret the main chorus as meaning a great number of things all at once. A different thing each time it's sung perhaps, evidenced by the fact the way it's sung changes?

It asks: If you are there, will you answer my questions? Can I stop time or must I change for the worse before I die? Can I make a deal with a being of faith? What is the meaning of life? etc

The first verse details a being that leaves the physical stars. It is beautiful (a look breaks the heart) and can command the heavens. It comes on its own, then leaves again. We are left to wonder why he left without us.

The second verse details a being that leaves the mystical stars. Something it can't forget (dreams about), crushed down. He was adored and even though disgraced is still beautiful. Those he left, the ones that adored him, his children, either cry out to him directly or weep that he left them.

Sophia and the Demiurge. Or vice versa. Or if you wish, something else.*

Now the rest of the verses struggle with things, or should I say details our struggles, but are rather clear.

Verbose mystery: There is a lot of information out here, but little truth.**

So the song asks, what's the truth, the entire story in all this information. The supposed consequences of not believing are not important here. Whatever it is you love, whatever your hope is, that will turn out to be untrue (or based upon incomplete information) also.

Because we're simply spirits in flesh. And we're always looking for what we think is promised to us. It's a golden ring, only something to grasp at. We are of the flesh, material, dirty. We feel the truth -- that the spiritual ones would never let us get that empty promise.




*
Isaiah 14:12 -- How you are fallen from heaven, O Day Star, son of Dawn! How you are cut down to the ground, you who laid the nations low!

Most likely, "O Day Star" (phosphoros/lucifer) is a purposeful mistranslation of heylel, a mad, boastful, foolish, full of rage one. But that's an entire other subject.

Also see 2 Peter 1:19 -- We have also a more sure word of prophecy; whereunto ye do well that ye take heed, as unto a light that shineth in a dark place, until the day dawn, and the day-star arise in your hearts:

There's many others to choose from if you take a look, I'm sure.

**
Explaining this "verbose mystery" is rather key. A good example could be Genesis 2:17 3:4-5

God tells the man specifically not to eat from "the tree of the knowledge of good and evil" because "in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die." This is even before the woman is created out of the man. The serpent, more subtle "than any beast of the field which the LORD God had made" tells the woman "Ye shall not surely die. For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil." The man is not around.

Yes, a talking whatever the word serpent comes from in Hebrew. But is it not a beast of the field made by God, or is it not made by God at all? Or was God out making other material beings in the meantime? What color toaster do you want for your birthday? Ah, yes. Many other questions, just like the song!

But the point is that neither "side" is telling these two material beings of the Earth the entire story. They aren't even told together by either one of the supernatural/mystical beings. Whatever these things are, they seem to be imperfect, and only as malevolent or benevolent as permitted by their inadequacies. Did not God know of the serpent? Why tell the man, then create the woman? Where was the dude when the snake was hitting up his old lady? Also another subject.

anonymous September 13th, 2009 06:38PM  
I think it is very clear. Someone that was admired by a lot of people was killed, and now, the narrator--we'll just call him Davey, because that's who's singing it obviously--Davey is asking the killer--referred to as Miss Murder--that if he took his own life, would he be remembered in light, like the man who was killed. And it's gotta be a man, because it says in the song, "...Heavens bowed before him..." so I would assume it's a male. People remember the guy who was killed in light because he was the victim, and Davey wants those kinda thoughts on himself, and is wondering if suicide would give that to him.

"Hey, Miss Murder can I...
Hey, Miss Murder can I...
Make beauty stay if I...
Take my life?"
This is his question of suicide.

"With just a look,
they shook, and heavens bowed before him,
simply a look can break your heart..."
He's saying that the victim is someone well known and liked throughout the community.

"The stars that pierced the sky,
he left them all behind,
We're left to wonder why,
He left us all behind..."
He's saying that THe guy is dead now, and people miss him.

In the next verse...
"Dreams of his crash won't pass,
and now they all adore him,
beauty will last, when spiralled down..."
Here, he's saying that the death brought this guy to light.

We know the bridge into the chorus, and the chorus, but the bridge itself...here's what I see:
"What's the hook, the twist, within this verbose mystery? I would gladly bet my life upon it..."
He's asking if it's really death that makes them miss the loved man, and stating that he would "bet his life upon it" and commit suicide so people love him too.
"Like the ghost you love your ray of light will fizzle out. Without hope..."
This part is harder to decipher. I think Davey may be talking about the loved dead guy and knowing that if he does give in to suicide, he knows that one day, he'll be a memory and nothing more. Maybe.
"We're the empty set,
just floating through, wrapped in skin,
ever searching for what we were promised.
Like the golden ring we'd never let go,
Who would ever let us put our filthy hands upon it...?"
Here, Davey's stating that everyone wants to be seen in the same light as the loved dead guy and wonders why people think the way they do when someone dies. I guess.

Then it's the chorus again, which we already know Davey is asking the murderer of the loved dead guy if killing himself is the way to get what he wants. I hope you find my interpretation of this song agreeable, and thnx for reading. ^u^

LoveDeath_NAT October 11th, 2009 06:45PM  
Screw the hitler thing,

in an interview from their crsh love album,
davey says that decemberunderground was an album compiled of songs basing his emotions, love like winter, miss murder, prelude 12/21, and so on, I don't think HITLER is an emotion or has any emotion involved wiht his assholishness

anonymous October 28th, 2009 02:43PM  
It all makes sense if you relate it to Hitler.

"Hey, miss murder can I,
Hey, miss murder can I,
Make beauty stay if I,
Take my life?"

This refers to Hitlers mistress as Miss Murder, where Hitler would be Mr. Murder. The last 2 lines in the excerpt demonstrate peoples willingness to commit suicide to escape from his tyranny.

"With just a look,
they shook,
and heavens
bowed before him,
simply a look
would break your heart"

This refers to Hitlers power over all his officials, and "the heavens bowed before him" refers to the other world leader's respect and fear of him. the last 2 lines talk about the sadness of the chaos that insued when Hitler started annexing.

"The stars that pierce the sky,
he left them all behind,
he left, who'd want to know why,
he left us all behind"

This talks about (first line) the munitions of WWII that were fired, from bombs to bullets. The rest is about how Hitler commited suicide, and left his followers to clean up the mess and face war crimes.

(repeat of first excerpt and meaning)

"Dreams of his crash,
won't pass,
Or how they all
adored him
beauty will last
when he spiraled down"

The first 2 lines refer the infamy Hitler still has today even after dying and the fact he is probably the most known man ever proven to have lived. The next 2 refer, again, to the loyalty of his officers and those under his control. the last 2 lines refer to the fact that him and "Miss Murder" both committed suicide together.

"The stars that mystify" and "how his children cried(the rest of the verse is the same) refer to seperate yet connected things. The first refers to why war is fought. Why do we fight wars? The latter is about how when Hitler was declared dead, his officers, aka his "children", were sad he had gone.

"Whats the hook
whats the twist
in this verbose mystery"

This refers to the fact that Hitler was a very good spokesman, and he probably was able to TWIST what he was saying and HOOK the listeners. Verbose means to use too many words for something that could have been put simply.

"I would gladly bet
my life upon it,
That the the ghost you love,
your ray of light,
will fizzle out,
without hope"

This talks about the reminiscence of the fact that all leaders and role models will come to a death, sometimes grisly or rather unpleasant.

"We're the empty satchels
floating through,
wrapped in skin,
ever searching for
what we were promised,
reaching for the
golden ring we never let go
who would ever
let us put
our filthy hands on it?

The first half shows how life under tyranny is cruel and meaningless, while the second half shows how Hitler had an idea (aka the "golden ring"), but had to fight hard to get it and eventually lost.

(repeat of first excerpt and meaning)

So you see, it all makes sense.

anonymous November 2nd, 2009 05:02AM  
i agree that its Hitler when they say "may beauty stay if i take my life" its probably referring to Hitler hoping that if he took his own life that the ideals he instilled in Germany would stay. just watch the video its clearly a moch up of one of Hitler's speeches

anonymous January 3rd, 2010 01:50PM  
I think its about kurt cobain because he had a huge following and died at the peak of stardom in 1994.I think miss murder is his wife courtney love.

anonymous January 27th, 2010 06:27PM  
I think the songs just about a well man killing himself over a woman, her beauty captivated him they shined with the stars and she broke his heart.