infinitepaths January 22nd, 2006 12:56AM  

First off, what is this "unable to forgive your scarlet letterman" OH! So we are speaking of a specific thing, so it really can't be about just any grudge, right? Unless of course your writer chooses to use a red pen, haha. Who has red lettering, Jesus does in the bible. Any red writing in the bible are supposed actual words that Jesus said. Ok, now, "Clutch it like a cornerstone. Otherwise it all comes down. Justify denials and grip 'em to the lonesome end." cornerstone=foundation(in dictionary) People that believe in God and follow that religion hold on to their beliefs and aim to make it the foundation in the lives. We are not talking about a preference for a certain color or a hobby. This is serious, we are talking about the reason why we are all here! A certain devotion to a lifestyle, must be followed, there are certain things that you do when you are a lamb of God. Anyway, there was a point in my life where I blamed God, or had resentment toward him for allowing all the suffering that I have endured in my life. I questioned that if he was so powerful and loving, how could he allow it to happen. Also, I then stopped blaming when I understood the reason for our suffering, but that is jumping too far ahead. The grudge is the feeling of resentment toward whatever you feel about the topic. Maynard is not saying to go get baptised and repent, no way, he is saying to let some love inside and "let go" of that hate and doubt. You will never know anything more or new on a topic if you are not open to it. Love, forgivness, being a good person by doing whatever you feel being a good person would be. Letting go of that resistance so you may have your own mind, free of that stone, that crown of negativity. Yeah!! you a king, you rule your world, but your a king of negativity. Would you care more of being the one that chooses your purpose, or would you be open to the possiblity of another ruling? Has our democracy, or our freedom of choice become so that we will not be open to a leader. I really do not feel that Maynard is aiming toward God, but just speaking about how we are less willing to be fairly open to it based on our desire to choose our own. We are falling farther and farther away by not being open to certain things. Hate is like a poison, it spreads and may ruin most of what is good. Since people in general follower the leader, be a leader of hope and reason. A leader of love and forgivness and understanding. Others will follow. It is like when you go into work and your co-worker has a bad attitude, talks shit and is just negative and complains, you have a shitty working environment, but if you work with someone that is happy and in a good mood, you may find your own spirits being lifted because it would be more f a pleasant working envirnoment. You might even get more done, and maybe even with a good attitude, and you might even be making the best of your time there. It is the same as the world. We are surrounded by negativity and it is causing our "world" to be not so pleasant of an environment. We do have choice in our world, it starts right there in your chair and in mine. We do have the power to change the way that thing s are, but after a couple of days, somehow, we fall into our old patterns, what we have always known. Even if you get caught back in that undertow, learn to swim, keep your head above water. Watch the Aenima music video. Sorry for being so passionate, I know that is a no-no here on this planet. :)

SensitiveSoul February 10th, 2006 09:58AM  

I just want to say I recognized my own experiences in Zag's story. I also believe the song is about being able to let go certain persons or situations. It's about moving on, and becoming stronger than you were before. The song warns against holding a grudge, 'cause these leaden grudges drag you down like a stone in the ocean, leaving you to drown (beautiful metaphor!...) The song itself (instrumental) expresses the anger you feel when someone has mistreated you, but the lyrics add a meaningful message to the feelings expressed by the music. The lyrics are sung by a person who has already gone through this and can give the unexperienced advice on how to cope with a loss...

anonymous February 14th, 2006 01:33PM  

When I listen to The Grudge, I hear him speaking again with Jung and the great work towards wholeness. Saturn also represents the "darker" half of self, as oppossed to one who clings to only their "lighter" aspects. This is where one will have feelings of not letting go, because they have forgotten their animal instinct to say "%$&* it". The only path to wholeness is by understanding that saturn will ascend in youself again, and again.

misterbob February 24th, 2006 06:22PM  

I agree with most of the posts, this song is obviously about the dangers of holding a grudge. Someone wrote something about the scarlet lettermen being a reference to the Bible being written in red ink. I don't think that's quite right. There is a book called The Scarlet Letter. In the book, all who were convicted of commiting adultury were required to where a large red letter "A" on their chests. Go with the whole grudge idea... Unable to forgive your scarlet lettermen. It could well read, unable to forgive those who are adulterous. Or maybe, unable to forgive those whom everyone thinks is a horrible person. I am sure if I read the book again I could find something a little more relavant. I am sure it has something to do with the moral of that story. I am also sure that this was a heartfelt song and is probably a metaphor in general for holding a grudge against someone has done you wrong.

anonymous June 22nd, 2006 11:10AM  

I think bob is on the right track with regards to the "scarlett lettermen" reference.. and I feel that mjk is the victim of the lettermen. in this case, the specific reference to "scarlett letter" suggests that he has been the subject of the accusations, criticism, slander, persecution, judgement, etc. it's a very poetic way to express the hurt and frustration felt when dealing with it..

or maybe he cheated on his girl and she's never let him live it up. get over it! lol

suba_357 August 24th, 2006 04:00PM  

This album goes along with qabala and the tree of the sephirot. Which is on the back of the album case I believe, I don't have it right off hand here. This song is about the tenth path malchut (the kingdom). "wear the grudge like a crown."

malchut is the beginning of personality and the physical body or the foundation, found in the lyrics "clutch it like a corner stone, otherwise it all falls down."

this is also where the soul is united with source, this is the beginning of separating desire, the urge to individuate. I believe in the first half of this song this is where they are describing the feelings and thoughts they had early on in life. They also repeat a couple of these things near the end. (I am not gonna try and figure out what every single line means, if you want to know more go get a book on qabala and read about the 10th path you might find better answers in it then I did).

Saturn's placement at birth influences the person's work in life, their obstacles, the challenges that will test them and build character. Saturn shows how a person will mature, and how they will learn to cope with adversity.
Saturn has a 28 year cycle through the 12 zodiak signs. Spending about 2 years in each sign. When saturn is in your sign it faces you will many tests on your inner self. Having to do with some people mid life chrisis. It will also come when you are 55-60. And when saturn comes around you will either be lifted to a higher state of consciousness (not saying its gonna be christ concousness)or you will be hurt by these tests and be put further back.

Ok one more thing and I'll stop "these leaden grudges into gold" talking about hard work turning the hard lead heart into something great.

If you have read this far thank you, I could have missed some things I kinda rushed this cause half way through writing this my computer messed up and I had to rewrite it... But like I said if you want to know more go read up on qabala (there are a lot of ways to spell it) Im positive that this song is about the 10th path, not saying it isn't about more or could be about other things also, and I know this album is about the tree of life and every song pointing to a different path. This song is about saturn and the challenges it faces you with. And for those of you who thought this song was about a grudge Maynard has with someone... He isn't that straight forward about anything so usually the most obvious answer is not what he was intending the song to mean.

And one more thing yes I know they mean us to interpret the songs how we see or feel them, but they did write these songs with something in mind and did write it about something, so you can take this song any way you want and you won't be wrong.

anil_saddat_2011 December 20th, 2006 01:51PM  

The Grudge is about the anger we put up because of the problems we face for our wrongs and cannot solve them.
The grudge personifies gods contribution to the human kind. And our lack of appreciation for it.

P.S Hey I'm anil from bangladesh, small country in asia. I love your interpretation specially infinitepaths. I had the exact same belief and I am glad to find someone who shares the same perspective.

anonymous April 12th, 2007 04:13PM  

As far as I'm concerned, the only one who can give the proper explanation is the writer himself. However, here is mine... The reference to the grudge can have many explanations. I believe the writer is referring to a grudge over something or things which are beyond our control. The lyrics may have multiple meanings. The principle behind Saturn's return are for 3 reasons: the astrological principle, the one relating to alchemy and the ever changing celestial body of the planet itself, which, according to theory, could draw our own planet out of orbit and end all life as we know it. The term grudge may be a message: why bear a grudge over things or events which we cannot prevent or change. "...to consume you till you let this go" Some of the song refers to typical human nature and behavior, "...wear the grudge...calculate what you will or will not tolerate, desperate to control all and everything." the term "Scarlet Letterman" could refer to Christ's role in the bible and the grudge one may have concerning the bible's influence on society. perhaps it is about Nathaniel Hawthorne's character, Hester Prynne, who was labeled for committing an "unforgivable" act. Either way, we all have regrets...Just 'let it go' we have a life to live. Atrius

anonymous June 23rd, 2007 06:10AM  

Saturn ascends is just an abstract idea because Saturn does not actually go down unless in orbit. Its not all about astrology just because it mentions Saturn once. Wearing a grudge on your head like a crown is reference to permenent declaration of remaining mad or upset and being obvious about your anger.

anonymous September 25th, 2007 12:03PM  

IDK. There is this Seven Year Cycle which states every seven years the human body goes through a life change because of something to do with Saturn's orbit.

"Saturn comes back around
To show you everything
Lets you choose what you will
And will not see and then
Drags you down like a stone
Or lifts you up again
Spits you out like a child
Light and innocent"

anonymous November 20th, 2007 09:29PM  

My guess would be that this song is about Freemasonry.
Ill leave the research up to you folks.

anonymous December 21st, 2007 01:09PM  

I agree with the obvious interpretation of being unforgiving. But I thought maybe the song was about science as well.
"Scarlet Lettermen" made me discover this new interpretation. The 'lettermen' are the scientists writing their theoretical knowledge."calculate what we will or will not tolerate": like human sciences.
"Desperate to control all and everything": Science is and endless process, and society is more and more built upon it.
"Terrified of being wrong"
"Saturn ascends, choose one or ten. Hang on or be humbled again.": Maybe he means with "humbled again" that humans fancy themselves god by thinking they are capable of knowing everything.
"Defining, confining, sinking deeper. controlling, defining, and were sinking Deeper." Again some scientific words.
"Give away the stone. let the oceans take and transmutate this cold and fated anchor.": We have to accept we're not almighty, and we just have to live our lives without trying to figure everything out.
There are pieces of the song which I can't link to this interpretation though...

anonymous February 5th, 2008 07:39PM  

I think you guys might have the wrong Saturn. I'm not saying that I know I'm right, but I think the references to Saturn, children, and the stone might have to do with the Mythological god Saturn, who swallowed all of his children in fear of being overthrown by one of them. When, Zeus, the 9th child was born, Saturn's wife wrapped a stone in a blanket and gave it to him, and Saturn ate it thinking it was the baby.

Zeus later tricked his father into drinking a remedy that made him spit up Zeus' 8 siblings and, together, they overthrew Saturn.

anonymous February 10th, 2008 04:50PM  

I agree about 'Saturn' meaning the mythological god, Saturn, but there's also another thing; this site says the lyrics are "Scarlet LetterMAN", but I've always seen it in plural form, "Scarlet LetterMEN," which would help support the theory that it refers to people who've hurt you.
I think it makes more sense that way, because it'd make the song more general, and it refers to many more people.

anonymous April 17th, 2008 02:48PM  

I think its more about how sometimes you SHOULD hold a grudge "clutch it like a cornerstone otherwise it all comes down". "calculate what you will or will not tolerate." I think this means figure out for yourself that some grudges are worth holding... others not so much.

anonymous June 14th, 2008 05:16AM  

With Respect to SATURN reference, while I don't know the details of Roman mythology, SATURN's parallel in Greek mythology is CRONOS, who often personifies time.

Thus, "SATURN ascends" could refer to the immutable (well assuming v << c ) passage of time, while "ignorant to the damage done" may refer to decay and damage equally wrought upon all by time's passage (i.e. Saturn's ascendancy).

"Comes 'round again" express the idea that Saturn has gained ascendancy in the past, i.e. destroyed all who have come before even as it is destroying all now.

Coupled with the surface "anti-Grudge" message, these passages serve to juxtapose "The Grudge" against the vastness of eternity, thus revealing its insignificance as well as the silliness and triteness of clutching onto one.

anonymous July 17th, 2008 01:52AM  

It's actually based on the book "The Scarlet Letter"

tool_081 July 31st, 2008 12:52AM  

The Grudge

“Clutch it like a cornerstone. Otherwise it all comes down.”

Anger, jealousy and greed are some of the rawest human emotions we will ever experience and we are all connected by this. Everyone knows what anger feels like just as everyone has experienced sadness at some point. These emotions make us human and help to shape us. They also connect us in a some what primitive way. We can all relate in one way or another to these emotions which allows us to sympathize and relate to the feelings of others. These emotions are great no matter how terrible they may make us feel because we are reminded at our most feeble that we are still alive and part of a fully functioning system far greater then the consumer plantation we have constructed. My greatest moment of sorrow is something I wouldn’t trade for the world because it is an experience that contributed to my personal growth in some way. The Grudge focuses heavily on elements of vengeance and spite. “Wear The Grudge like a crown of negativity” examines the way we parade our anger towards others like royalty. Its narcissistic and self-deprevating behaviour that detracts from all we could be experiencing. We allow our anger to be the cornerstone to our life and build around it fearing that if we abandon it everything will come crashing down on us. The anger we have created will continue to build despite our hopes and will become a factor in our life when it really seems petty in the grand scheme of things. “Saturn ascends, choose one or ten. Hang on or be humbled again”. No matter how important we feel our problem is when we compare it to the infinite galaxies all around us it seems to get a little less so. We can choose to continue our warm familiar embrace with our cornerstone or we can allow it to go, and stare at the vast beauty of the rest of the world. This choice will either leave us humbled with a very valuable lesson in tow or with us clinging to the last threads of spite. Either way the earth will continue to rotate and Saturn will continue its ascent with or without you. “Justify denials and grip em’ to the lonesome end”. Anger is uninviting and cold leaving you to wallow in self pity while people and opportunities pass you by. In the end you will be reinforcing your decisions to yourself detached and unaware of anything or anyone. Your absorption in a problem long forgotten will leave you alone to face the trials and tribulations of life creating a void that can never be filled until you decide to empty it. “Saturn ascends, the one, the ten. Ignorant to the damage done”. The cosmos have continued to operate in spite of your absence and are unsympathetic to your problem. Others have ascended and await your revival so you may join them and become part of what really matters. You are unable to forgive and sink deeper and deeper into the emotion you have created. You no longer feel happy because it has become foreign. To be happy is to release anger and invite in love. The consumption of your soul becomes inevitable, this is the crossroads where you must decide whether you will live or complete your fortress of solitude and misery.

This is not a complete interpretation just a sample, I find everything on Lateralus so complex and intricate that my interpretations often change or I add things. There in lies the true essence of the album in my opinion.

anonymous September 16th, 2008 12:41PM  

I think That this song Refers to 'the faithful' (Abrahamic religions) jealously and desperately clinging on to religious principals.

"Wear the grudge like a crown
Of negativity
Calculate what you will
Will not tolerate
Desperate to control
All and everything
Unable to forgive
Your scarlet letterman"

--Describing the self assumed rightousness and self interest of "the faithful". Then mentioning being "unable fo forgive your scarlet letterman", presumably refering to the First Council of Nicaea or the Book of Common Prayer and therefore the bearers of Christianity.

"Clutch it like a cornerstone
Otherwise it all comes down
Justify denials and
Grip 'em to the lonesome end

Clutch it like a cornerstone
Otherwise it all comes down
Terrified of being wrong
Ultimatum prison cell"

--Decribing clinging on to the organised religion for fear of loss of rightousness and self-denial of wrongdoing.

"Saturn ascends
Choose one or ten
Hang on or be
Humbled again
Humbled again"

--Saturn, in astrology, is associated with (among others) limitation, restriction and structures. The rise in negative emotion is also suggested.
This probably refers to the percieved collapse/ing of traditional religious beliefs and structures. Choosing one or ten, could be preposing that "the faithful" either cling on to orthodoxy and continue or accede to new ideas but be humbled for thier earlier ways. This is because saturn was traditionally considered the ruler of the first house but is considered ruler of the tenth house in modern astrology.


The rest of the song pretty much repeats the theme with slight variation until the end.

Towards the end, the lyrics extol allowing the religious beliefs to die and therefore allowing the rebirth and enlightenment to occur.
The return of saturn also signifying a turning point in someones life.

I think that the organised church (or the hierachy) could be the target or it could be the individual believer. Holding on to religion for fear of having to let it go and of being unknowing again. Knowing tool it seems likely to either, although in retrospect it seems more likely to be the individual since the theme of Lateralus is individual enlightenment and self-realisation.

Lucabarzini December 17th, 2008 09:06AM  

This song.. everytime I hear makes me feel a calamity... and tells you to let go... but at the same times reminds you of those grudges... and makes you feel anger then tells you to let go of the anger. "Saturn ascends.. ultimatum prison cell." When the grudge descends on you have a choice... to feel the anger and hold on to that feeling.. and imprison yourself. Or "be humbled again" and let go of the anger... give away the stone if you will. Again.. like all of their songs the listener feels alot of emotion.. not just through the lyrics but the tone of music can give away what a verse might be trying to say.. ecspecially in Tool's case.